Tyler Comrie
Two days earlier than Donald Trump was re-elected president, he instructed rallygoers that he wouldn’t mind if somebody shot through a crowd of journalists. A few of his supporters laughed a bit, some cheered. It was typical fare.
The identical weekend, Trump called journalists “monsters” and “horrible, horrible, dishonest folks.” Previously, he has cheered a journalist shot with a rubber bullet as a “beautiful sight;” he heaped adoration on a candidate who body-slammed a reporter. In 2018, he declared the “pretend information” media to be the “enemy of the folks.”
Trump—as he has made clear repeatedly—disdains the press. And that hatred has penalties. He has launched authorized challenges towards retailers whose protection he deems unfavorable, mocked journalists, and picked an obsequious Federal Communications Fee nominee ready to help him do as he pleases.
So how ought to journalists and information customers put together for an additional 4 years of assaults on the free press from Trump and his administration?
I referred to as media critic and journalist Margaret Sullivan to get her take. Sullivan, who beforehand labored as the general public editor for the New York Instances and the media columnist for the Washington Submit, writes a weekly column for the Guardian and for her Substack, “American Crisis.” She can also be the manager director of the Craig Newmark Middle for Journalism Ethics and Safety at Columbia Journalism College. We spoke by way of Zoom on the finish of December.
This interview has been evenly condensed and edited.
What are the principle threats that the press ought to be frightened about as we head towards a second Trump time period?
I figured a second time period can be worse. A number of the guardrails are down; he has his personal crew in place on the FBI and on the Justice Division.
However then it began to look even a little bit worse. ABC Information chose to settle with Trump a defamation swimsuit centered on the E. Jean Carroll case towards him. It worries me that ABC—which is owned by Disney—didn’t mount a robust protection. And we’re seeing the outcomes of this, I feel, already: Trump is suing the Des Moines Register for a ballot that they did throughout the marketing campaign that wasn’t favorable to him. However it was a reliable ballot by a really reliable pollster.
I feel one of many issues that I actually fear about probably the most is that information organizations are going to self-censor, and so they’re going to harm themselves by not having a robust backbone and sufficient braveness to say, “No, we’re going to carry quick right here. We’re going to defend our reporters, and we’re going to defend our speech and press rights.”
On condition that information organizations sometimes don’t settle defamation fits like that, what do you assume is Trump’s intent by submitting so many lawsuits towards them?
It’s at all times a doubtful proposition to place your self inside Donald Trump’s head—I haven’t wished to be there, truthfully. However I feel it’s an effort to intimidate. Definitely, he would like to have considered one of these instances discover its strategy to the Supreme Court docket, the place there’s in all probability some sympathy for altering the precedent that has protected information organizations for a very long time. It’s actually onerous to efficiently sue for defamation towards a public determine. So as to win that form of case, what needs to be proved is reckless disregard for the reality or malicious intent. Journalists might make errors, and so they do make errors, however they’re not purposefully telling lies. In order that has been a extremely essential safety.
I’ve had an extended profession in journalism. I began out typing on a handbook typewriter. After I grew to become the editor of my hometown paper in Buffalo, New York, we had varied lawsuits. Individuals like to sue the press. We by no means settled a single case. And in the entire time I used to be editor, which was nearly 13 years, we by no means misplaced a case. That’s as a result of we stood regular. To see that getting diminished, it’s actually worrisome.
Billionaires appear to be more and more wielding management over the free move of data that’s important of Trump. Amazon founder Jeff Bezos, who additionally owns the Washington Submit, killed that paper’s editorial endorsing Vice President Kamala Harris, for instance; Patrick Quickly-Shiong, proprietor of the LA Instances, reportedly did the identical. What did you make of this—had been you shocked by their actions, or do you assume that that is what occurs when billionaires run information organizations?
I used to be actually shocked. I feel it has to do with their billionaire possession. I don’t assume that when the Washington Submit was owned by the Graham household that may ever have occurred.
As for the LA Instances, it’s odd to see Patrick Quickly-Shiong’s strikes. I imply, he’s talking about putting a so-called AI-powered “bias meter” on tales to say this story leans left or proper.
If I had been a journalist at that paper simply making an attempt to jot down tales or write editorials or do my job, it will be extraordinarily dispiriting to have the proprietor intruding that means. There’s no different strategy to put it: That is interfering with editorial independence. It’s actually disturbing.
After I was on the Washington Submit, which was up till 2022, Bezos actually was very hands-off. He allowed the journalists to run the paper. That was nice. I feel a few of that in all probability needed to do with the truth that Marty Baron, the legendary editor of the Submit on the time, was a really robust persona. He didn’t actually have any drawback holding Bezos at bay. However on this new period, it appears to be a totally completely different story. I do know lots of people there are actually upset. If you happen to may go away and go someplace good, you in all probability would at this level.
Do you assume that Trump is a novel menace to the press, or is there a comparable historic precedent? I believed it was actually putting when a number of press freedom teams issued warnings a few days after the election. What did you make of that?
He’s considered one of a form. I feel there are many others who might be problematic for the press, however Trump is especially worrisome due to his robust persona, due to the way in which he has this cult-like following. Everybody simply appears to kind of settle for what he says at face worth, and since he has made it part of his persona—a part of his political persona—to pursue the press and to threaten the press. A few years in the past now, he told Lesley Stahl of CBS Information that the rationale he assaults the press is “to discredit you all and demean you all so whenever you write unfavourable tales about me, nobody will consider you.”
I feel that he has really been very profitable in turning the general public—some sections of the general public, a superb chunk of it—towards the press. Belief is down. It was down anyway, however it’s even additional down.
I bear in mind once I was on the Submit and I used to be doing a little reporting in a really pink district of New York state, I launched myself to someone I used to be making an attempt to interview, and his quick response was, “Oh, so pretend information, proper?” I feel that’s a quite common response now. And I don’t imply to say for one second that I feel that you just journalists do an ideal job or that they’re fully unbiased—I imply, that’s not the case. However the journalists that I do know are actually making an attempt to do good work, and so they’re actually making an attempt to do their job of being the eyes and ears of the general public and maintain energy to account.
Simply a few days earlier than the election, Trump made a remark at a rally saying that he’d be okay with somebody capturing via a crowd of journalists. How ought to folks take these feedback? Ought to we take them actually? And even when not, what sort of injury does he do by seemingly encouraging violence towards journalists?
I feel that a part of what occurs when democracies are backsliding—and that’s positively occurring in america—is that there’s this name to violence, not solely towards journalists, however basically. You’ve seen numerous that from Trump, calling for or seeming to support violent acts, and that’s part of his attraction. It’s unusual to say, however it’s completely part of his message. When he talks about capturing journalists, or no matter kind of group he’s going after—and positively his political rivals, he stated comparable sorts of issues about—it’s actually troubling.
I don’t assume that it’s important to take it actually to be frightened about it. However then once more, you already know, Trump himself has been the sufferer of two assassination attempts. And we’re in a really violent tradition—I imply, all these college shootings and all of this gun violence. It’s more and more unleashed by a president who talks that means. I feel it’s very regarding.
How involved are you concerning the failure of the PRESS Act to pass this session of Congress, which might have created a federal protect legislation to guard journalists from being compelled to reveal their sources to the federal government? Do you assume Trump will attempt to pressure journalists to disclose confidential sources?
Through the years, I’ve had varied emotions about such a legislation. However I’ve come to really feel we actually want a federal protect legislation in order that journalists can defend their sources. The truth that it was stopped—mainly by Sen. Tom Cotton (R-Ark.)—is basically unlucky.
I feel that there’s going to be an effort to have journalists reveal their sources. I don’t know what’s going to occur within the courts—as a result of the courts have in some instances develop into populated by individuals who have been appointed by Trump. The PRESS Act would have helped. I don’t assume it’s lifeless. It’s not going to occur proper now, however it’s one thing that we’re going to want.
How involved are you concerning the position Elon Musk may play in additional undermining belief in, and facilitating assaults on, the media, on condition that he has promoted “citizen journalism” as “vastly superior to legacy media journalism,” admitted that X limits the attain of posts with hyperlinks, and allowed election disinformation to run rampant within the so-called “election integrity group” on X?
He’s clearly a problematic determine. He’s nearly enjoying the position of a shadow president. He’s at Trump’s aspect rather a lot. He appears to affect him rather a lot.
However there’s no motive he ought to be so influential. All it’s important to do is take a look at what has occurred with Twitter—which, though it had its faults up to now, actually did play an essential position by way of being kind of a public sq. for data. And it’s been very compromised by Elon Musk’s possession. The squelching of reports as a result of posts which have a hyperlink to a information story, the way in which that the algorithm, or no matter it’s that’s at work, is elevating the voices of people who lean very far right—in some instances, there’s hate speech; in some instances, there’s white supremacists and even neo-Nazis operating rampant.
When he purchased Twitter, he was speaking about free speech and the way he was the last word free speech champion. However that has not turned out to be the case. Free speech doesn’t imply that each piece of violence or hateful propaganda ought to be given a megaphone. Freedom of speech just isn’t freedom of attain.
Are there different threats to the press within the Trump period that you just assume folks aren’t listening to that they need to be?
One of many issues that’s at all times on my thoughts—and this got here up within the Obama administration after which once more within the Trump administration—is the use of the Espionage Act to go after leaks.
Reality Winner, who leaked an intelligence report about Russian interference in the 2016 election to the Intercept, was not a journalist. She was a source. However she received a really harsh jail sentence as a result of the Trump administration wished to make an instance of someone who had leaked categorized data. The knowledge that she leaked was essential, and she or he did it—I feel, it appears—as a patriotic act. But she was handled very harshly. I feel using the Espionage Act is one thing that worries me rather a lot. That could be a 100-year-old legislation that was by no means meant to go after journalists, however it has been used to go after sources. And I fear that will probably be used to go after journalists, too. We’ve seen a few of that, and I’m afraid that may ramp up.
How can media customers combat again towards Trump’s makes an attempt to undermine belief within the press?
Initially, they need to not tune out. There’s a actually robust urge, I feel, amongst individuals who consider in democracy and who’re involved to say, “I simply can’t take it. I’m going to only watch Netflix and watch sports activities and focus on my household.” And people issues are all high-quality, and I do these, too. However I feel it’s actually essential to not tune the information out—to nonetheless discover information sources that you just discover credible and plausible.
I feel it’s actually essential for folks to help their native information organizations—whether that’s a local nonprofit, whether or not it’s a radio station, whether or not it’s their native newspaper. And I do know folks say, “Oh, my native newspaper is owned by a personal fairness firm, I’ve no want to help them.” However there’s a push and pull there, as a result of a part of what you’re supporting is the reporters who’re on the metropolis council assembly or the varsity board assembly.
I’d say: Keep tuned in, help voices and organizations that you just assume are doing a superb job, attempt to nurture and help native journalism, and don’t lose coronary heart. Don’t throw up your arms. Now we have to remain engaged as residents. It’s fairly discouraging proper now, however there are methods to combat again. The US has had numerous robust instances up to now and has come via them, and I hope—and I’ve some stage of confidence that our nation, our democracy goes to be robust sufficient to endure these challenges.
